I'm currently changing the clutch master cylinder and I've got a couple ideas that I thought might make things easier and possibly more reliable.I was wondering ifanyone has done any of the following or are there any oppositions to these ideas? Or are there any other ideas that may be better/different?

First, use a single stainless-steel braided line from the master to the slave cylinder. This would eliminate the rubber section that can get weak or crack, and it minimizes the number of fittings in the line.

Second, installing an additional reservoir for the clutch hydraulics, rather than sharing with the brake reservoir.

 

Well, a stainless steel braided line still has a rubber core, and it will rot away just like a standard line. Most blue lines have been on the car for 20 years! Thats a pretty good lifespan for a hose! Plus that hose is like 5 bucks a foot, and you don't even need a foot.

Don't see why you would go to any trouble of adding an additional reservoir, you would gain absolutely nothing from it.

 

The line I'm referring to isn't the blue hose from the reservoir to the clutch master cylinder, it's the pressure line from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. I'm not so worried about the rubber rotting, itthe pressure on the rubber line that would weaken it over time. Same idea as stainlessbraided brake lines, though I'm sure the pressures aren't the same.

As for the additional reservoir,I don't see much, if any benefit from it. The two small thingsthat I can think of are 1.The clutch system sucking air if your reservoiris low and 2. Ifone of your hydraulic systems is leaking, it would be easier to trace if they were separated. Both minor and far fetched, but even themost minorimprovement could be a benefit.

 

Ok, the pressure line. Again, any line that lasts 20 years transfering fluids, IMHO is a good design.

As for the reservoir, it has a low level indicator light, at which point, the clutch system is still safe from air. That is the sign to go figure out why it is low.

 

Never did I imply that the pressure line wasn't a good design. I was asking if anyone reading my post had either done it before or had any other ideas that maybe I hadn't thought of. Sure, the turbo on that car has been blowing air for the last 20 years also, but that doesn't mean that a turbo from a 944 Turbo S wouldn't be an improvement. Please tell me, of the 9 cars shown on your shops opening web page, which one has all factory partsfrom it's particular year/model vehicle?

 

There is a difference between adding aftermarket performance items, and hacking up a car. The things you are talking about, are considered hacking up a car. There is absoultely no advantage to swapping out the existing pressure line or adding a 2nd reservoir.

I have seen too many of these cars get hacked up by some shadetree mechanic because he thinks he is improving the design. There are proper ways to do things, and improper ways.

 

Maybe there's no advantage to you because either 1. You have unlimited funds at your disposal, 2. You're using customer’s funds on customer’s cars so it's a non-issue, 3. You've been working on these cars so long that you've been blinded to the idea that something could be simplified, 4. For you, it has to be a part manufactured by a major company for it to be considered an advantage, otherwise it's just a hack. In your career, have you ever fabricated any part that you installed on a car, or do you just pull something outof a box and bolt it on?

I admit that the additional reservoir poses no significant, if any advantage. It was an idea that I thought I'd try to get feedback on (not get ridiculed for). As for the pressure line, let me give you my scenario. I've got to replace the master cylinder, might as well replace the slave cylinder at the same time. Since I'm replacing both of those, why not replace the pressure line as well. (If I didn't replace the pressure line while I'm atit, that would be like putting new brake rotors and calipers on but using your old brake pads.) In order to replace thepressure line,you've got the hard line connector at the mastercylinder, the hard line to flex line connector, and the flex/hard line to slavecylinder connector. That gives you 3 chances for a loose fitting, cross-threading, stripping, etc. Sure, anyone who knows the how to use asocket set shouldn't have any problems with that, but we can't all be perfect. So, how about eliminate a fitting, eliminate the rubber section (which is known to getspongy, hence the popularity of stainless-braided brake lines), and eliminate the hassle of trying the thread the hard line fitting onto the master cylinderin that extremely tight space thatyou have to work with.Soundslike an advantage to me.

With all that said, and with all of yourexperience, have you ever used anything besides OEM parts for theclutch hydraulic lines? If so, I would like to know whatyouused and how youdid it so that I can use that informationwith what I am currently working on in my car. Or maybe as aLead Technician you would know some crazy fact like "the pressure coefficient of the hydraulic fluid in the circumference of the OEM pressure line is specifically matched to thebore diameter and fluid transfer rate of the masterand slave cylinder, therefore making anything other than OEM unusable". Please, give me something I can use rather than just trying to tell me that I'm a hack.

 

I agree that you should be replacing the pressure line, and the two cylinders if you are doing the job. I don't see any reason to not use the hose. It is about a $40 hose. I value my time a little more than that. It will take you a certain amount of time to fabricate that line, for no good reason.

As for the modications. We design and install more custom parts that you can imagine. Do you have an in house CNC machine that you cut your own custom parts on? I do. Do you think those parts just fabricate them themselves? Have you designed a centrifugal supercharger kit for the Boxster, increasing the rear wheel horsepower 100+ over stock? I have. It has been in two magazine articles. European Car and Excellence. All initial fabrication was done with a plasma cutter and welder. We do more custom work on Porsches that 95% of Porsche shops in the country. Our CSI to EFI kits...100% custom. So custom, that we can't even have any other shops install them, because every car is different.

And yes, I have used stainless braided line on a custom 3 disc tilton clutch project on a GT2....because it HAD to be made. If there would have been an OEM part to replace it, I would have used it. There was no advantage to making something custom.

I am here to give advice to rookies. I am on almost every Porsche board out there, so sometimes I don't have the time to write a disertation about why you should or shouldn't do anything. What I can tell you, is that if you can bolt on a proven OEM part for something that doesn't need to do anything beside what it was intended for, then do so. The custom work eats up much more time. Time is money. I offer this advice for free, so you can take it for what it is worth. A year ago, this board was full of guys hacking their cars up, it was a joke amongst the Porsche guys. Sorry, if I am a bit harsh on ideas as such, keeping the forum clean is a lot more work than you think.

 

Well, I appreciate you taking the time to read my responses, let alone taking the time to respond back.

I understand that having all of the CNC machines, plasma cutters, and TIG welders (customers with seemingly unlimited funds helps too) at your disposal puts you on a completely different level than someone like myself working out of a garage. However, with the limited resources I do have, I get excited at the opportunity to one-off something that I need to replace anyways,even if it performslittle to no different thanthe OEMpiece did. Yeah, I'll put more time into it, maybe a little more money, but I enjoy doing it (and it's not my job, which also makes a difference). As the years go byI continue to pick up tools here and there, be it an engine hoist, MIG welder, or Solidworks program, that helps me with whatever I have to(or want to) do at the time.Maybe one day I'll have that CNC machine or robotic TIG welder, and I'll be building centrifugal supercharger kits forwell off customers. Doubtful, but one can always hope for the best.

With as many post asyou have, I can imagine how much time you must have invested answeringquestions and trying to keep the forum "clean". If you invest as much time in other forums as you do here, I can't imagine you havingmuchtime for anything else. If I am accepted at this forum, I will do mybest not to clutter your grounds, but to offer additional advice (can't guarantee all will be good) to those withproblems. Or, maybe I'll fade off into the background along with the others that havecome and gone, depending on howhelpful the forum proves to be. With your experience,I can't imagine any question going unanswered. Oh, and I'll try to cut back on the length of my posts. If someone wanted to read a book, I'm sure this would be the last place they would look.

Thanks again.

 

Justin,

Any help you can add to the board is always welcome. It is nice to get to a point where you can be offering advice, versus always having to ask for it. I am sure you will have useful information to add! I remember when I first started (working on jackstands out of the garage), I think some guys got real sick of my questions also Now I find myself being able to offer the advice, and return the favor to the next generation of owners, but I sure don't know everything, and learn something new from the various boards on a daily basis. Once you know everything, it is time to quit and find a new profession/hobby Good luck with your project!